Pandora Day 2

[alexpk]

Ok, here's my updated list:
I am moving HB to probable villas because my reading of the plot says that there would be Dr. Augustine in this game (before there was a Max Patel) and no one has counterclaimed.

Dr. Augustine has a much longer bio on the avatar wikia site than Max Patel...


Cleared villas:
BP  OR  RG  -both claimed scully/psychic
LH - Neytin
Alex (me) - Trudy Chacon

Probable Villas:
HB - Augustine

which leaves 1-2 wolves here:
BEG - Max Patel/two special powers
Pariah - Mo'at


So, why aren't we choosing between BP or RG when we *know* one is a wolf?

[alexpk]

No, Pariah.  One at a time.  I'll go first, then you.

Sounds good. Will do.

Ok, pariah, your turn on the avatar halu network.

[alexpk]

I just believe RG.  I must be losing my mind.  She did have an issue with BP at the beginning of the day...and noted as much.

If I have to vote for one of the two....BP or RG.  I'm voting for BP.

This is very interesting, both HB and BEG think RG is villa.  I'd like everyone to line up and pick a side in the BP vs. RG vote.

If I was picking one, I'd pick RG is villa/BP wolf.  And then I'd say HB is villa/BEG wolf. 

[Lionheart]

Ok, here's my updated list:
I am moving HB to probable villas because my reading of the plot says that there would be Dr. Augustine in this game (before there was a Max Patel) and no one has counterclaimed.

Dr. Augustine has a much longer bio on the avatar wikia site than Max Patel...


Cleared villas:
BP  OR  RG  -both claimed scully/psychic
LH - Neytin
Alex (me) - Trudy Chacon

Probable Villas:
HB - Augustine

which leaves 1-2 wolves here:
BEG - Max Patel/two special powers
Pariah - Mo'at


So, why aren't we choosing between BP or RG when we *know* one is a wolf?

Because we haven't determined who's lying.  I haven't anyway.  I want to catch a Wolf with no doubts, today.  And no offense, Alex, but how exactly are you cleared?

[honeybee]

Because we haven't determined who's lying.  I haven't anyway.  I want to catch a Wolf with no doubts, today.  And no offense, Alex, but how exactly are you cleared?

thank you!

[Lionheart]

How the hell do you multi-quote?!?!

[honeybee]

I usually cut and paste in word.

Cut the quote...paste it in word...Cut quote...paste in word...make my post...cut and paste here.

[Lionheart]

HB, I trust you right now.  Did my case on BEG make ANY sense.  Or was going all "Lionheart" again?

[Lionheart]

We HAVE to be right today.  We can't afford a mis-lynch.  We won't be at LYLO, but it'll put us in a world of hurts.  And of BP and RG, I REALLY don't know who's lying at this point.  One thing for sure, we kill a Villa in one of them, we got a dead-nuts Wolf in the other.  That's a plus, anyway.  I just hate the thought of killing the Psychic in error.  Maybe NL is best...... today. 

[Lionheart]

I've decided not to pursue the BEG thing, right now.  I have a feeling was making to large of assumption based on what I was seeing.

Unvote:BEG

[honeybee]

HB, I trust you right now.  Did my case on BEG make ANY sense.  Or was going all "Lionheart" again?

It does...I'm following.

But RG or BP is the way we should go right now.

I am still really upset that RG isn't defending herself more.  I am split on them.

[CurtainCall]

VOTE COUNT (It takes 4 to lynch):

BrownEyedGirl (1): RG
RobsGirl (1): BP
No Lynch (1): BEG

Not Voting:
Alexpk
Honeybee
Lionheart
Pariah

The Day will end at 2:30PM, Friday, March 5th

[Pariah]

Alrighty. I'll cast my question to the mod for whoever to get.

Eywa be with us, we're in a stand-still. We know BP or RG is a wolf. Thus, as I believe BP more than RG, for now...


VOTE: RG

[alexpk]

Because we haven't determined who's lying.  I haven't anyway.  I want to catch a Wolf with no doubts, today.  And no offense, Alex, but how exactly are you cleared?

Well, I know I'm not a wolf and I've been working hard for the town.  However, there has been nothing in this game which 'proves' I am a villa. 

[alexpk]

How the hell do you multi-quote?!?!

I usually cut and paste in word.

Cut the quote...paste it in word...Cut quote...paste in word...make my post...cut and paste here.

Yeah I didn't even paste it in Word.  Just clicked quote, cut, go back, click quote on next one and paste in first quote.

[alexpk]

At the moment my villa list is
BP leaning villa
RG wolf

Between RG and BP... I just believe RG. 

The first quote is from page 2 today.  The second quote is from page 4 today.

I believe that HB is a villa, in fact the priest.

I think when she stated that she was not a vanillager she was role-blocked last night, which is what I would have done if I was a wolf.  She was the best candidate to be role-blocked.

Thus, this makes BEG a wolf.  I don't think she was role-blocked too.  And being a betting man, I don't believe that their powers cancelled out, as has been suggested.

[alexpk]

Holy flip-flop Batman!  I just re-read the thread and going to change my opinion on RG/BP conundrum. 

Cleared villas:
LH - Neytin
Alex (me) - Trudy Chacon

Probable Villas:
HB - Augustine/priest
RG - claimed Scully/psychic.  Peeked BP.

Dunno:
Pariah - Mo'at.  Waiting for halu message to go through.

Probable wolves:
BP - claimed Scully/psychic.   Claimed Scully first which a wolf would do to be first to claim/more legitimate.  Didn't claim psychic until 3 minutes AFTER RG claimed.  Why look at HB on n1?  That has to be the worst peek choice EVER.  Her role will become apparent in a few days, you should have looked at someone else.

BEG - Max Patel/two special one-time powers.  And one power was mysteriously role blocked last night.  huh?  Last to claim, picked least likely included human on list. 

[RobsGirl]

Lionheart, don't over think yourself.  You are right about BEG. 

Here's my list:

Village -
Alex
Pariah
Lionheart
Me

Wolf -
Bobby - because I selected him to look at last night
BEG

This was my list from the very beginning of the day.  It remains so.  I am Jake Sully (not Scully by the way) and I am the psychic. 

[RobsGirl]

Sorry HB, didn't mean to forget you.  Its late.  You are safe in my book too.

[bobbyplump]

BP - claimed Scully/psychic.   Claimed Scully first which a wolf would do to be first to claim/more legitimate.  Didn't claim psychic until 3 minutes AFTER RG claimed.  Why look at HB on n1?  That has to be the worst peek choice EVER.  Her role will become apparent in a few days, you should have looked at someone else.

1. It's Sully.

2. Of course I didn't claim Psychic! We weren't claiming roles. That would be an anti-town move. We were claiming names. I don't understand how me not blurting out my role at the start of Day 2 turned into a bad thing?

3. Why look at HB on Night 1? First, she was one of my top suspects. Second, she claimed to be special. So if she came out (as the Priest, it turns out) and there was a counterclaim, I'd be able to tell the town who was lying. Third, she's a darn good player, and it's good to identify good players at the start of the game.

[alexpk]

Hey BP, what do you think about BEG?

[alexpk]

1. It's Sully.
Mulder/Scully/Sully/whatever.  My bad.
2. Of course I didn't claim Psychic! We weren't claiming roles. That would be an anti-town move. We were claiming names. I don't understand how me not blurting out my role at the start of Day 2 turned into a bad thing?
RG just magically guessed that Sully's role was psychic?

3. Why look at HB on Night 1? First, she was one of my top suspects. Second, she claimed to be special. So if she came out (as the Priest, it turns out) and there was a counterclaim, I'd be able to tell the town who was lying. Third, she's a darn good player, and it's good to identify good players at the start of the game.
It was a bad play, if you are psychic.  Really bad.  Gosh awful bad.  Try to clear some villagers.  She claimed special, that would work itself out.  Maybe no one counter-claims.

[bobbyplump]

Hey BP, what do you think about BEG?

Besides RG, BEG is absolutely the most suspicious person out there.

But like I've been saying all along, if she's a wolf she made a bonehead move by claiming to have a Rez.  Because we can sit back and watch what happens tonight and be even more sure when we come out on Day 3. If there's a night kill tonight, we know BEG is lying. If there's no kill, we don't know BEG is clear, but our numbers will sure look a lot better.

[bobbyplump]

RG just magically guessed that Sully's role was psychic?

Whoever you believe, you believe that somebody "magically guessed" psychic. Because she claimed it. And I cleared in my first few posts on Day 2 my top suspect from Day 1.

It was a bad play, if you are psychic.  Really bad.  Gosh awful bad.  Try to clear some villagers.  She claimed special, that would work itself out.  Maybe no one counter-claims.

We'll just have to disagree on this one. I stand by it.

[BrownEyedGirl]

It does...I'm following.

But RG or BP is the way we should go right now.

I am still really upset that RG isn't defending herself more.  I am split on them.

Then explain it to me!  I never counter claimed LH.  If I'm so suspect, somebody needs to show me.  It's a reasonable request.  That's how the game works......accuse and defend.  When you call someone a wolf, you back it up with proof.......so, show me....I have the right to know. 
When I suspected LH, I laid out post-by-post and gave my reasons......let me highlight what those are again:

1.  I said LH and BP have been working together on the name reveal thing since day 1.

2.  On day 1, LH was "against" a reveal, then he changed his mind very quickly, after the discussion started.  Note:  BP is the one that started that whole thing.  He didn't come out with a plan this game, he suggested one and let the town run with it.

3.  After the can of worms was open, LH was ready/eager to name drop.....no questions, no fight, no talk about ramifications.  Does that sound like LH?  NO!  He would at least challenge it.....he didn't.

4.  I said that LH has been abnormally quiet.  He usually jumps in with both feet and is more aggressive.  BP backed him up and said, "I like the new LH...he's a much better player".  LH said, "If I have something important to say, I'll say it.".  Funny how he has plenty to say on Day 2....after he had 24 hours in the wolf cave, right?  So, it is completely reasonable for me to suspect both LH and BP.

5.  If you are basing your entire reasoning because I was reluctant/cautious to tell my name then that is bad logic.  How many games have we done this?  BP comes up with a plan to break the game, and it never pans out like presented.  These games are level.....there is no unfair advantage to either team.  There are built in safeguards to keep this from happening.  NOTE:  I have said in past games...more than once.... that I refuse to participate in any more of BP's plans, because I haven't seen a plan yet that hasn't been foiled, screwed up, and hurt the town.  Frankly, I am surprised at how easily the town just went along with the plan.

6.  Think about building this game......think like GH would.  WE STILL DON"T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO IGN. (convenient that the conversation was diverted away from this)  If the wolves have powers, then GH would have to put in a safeguard to balance out those powers....don't you think?

7.  I suggested the message thing.  Why would I do that?  I did that to help me and anyone else decide if LH really is Nav'i.  I was digging for information....that's what villagers do.....cause I'm a townie.  Granted, it's not 100% fool proof, but after Alex confirmed his message, I changed my mind about LH.   

That's how it went down......I accused LH, backed it up with why I accused him.......I CAME UP WITH A WAY TO HELP SEMI-CLEAR HIM......and then, I backed off him.  So, I don't know how all this junk got started.  I think LH has blinders on (or a brilliant plan) from his very first post of the game.  He accused you and me of "conspiring/staging in the open".  He even accused you and me of it on Day 2, AFTER you came out as the priest.   

Today is going to be busy in real life for me.....plus, I got caught posting in here, and not working from my boss yesterday.  So, I will only be online during my breaks and lunch today. 

[RobsGirl]

I'll be at work when day ends so here goes:

Unvote:  BEG
Vote: Bobby

I'm putting my vote where my read is.  I am the Psychic and I looked at Bobby (for the umpteenth time!).  I was given two options for my look  - to see if someone was Human/Na'vi or Good/Evil.  Being as I brought up the whole "some humans are evil" thing,  I opted to see if Bobby was evil and it came back yes. 

Alex you are on the right path.  So are you Lion.  Just look at the number of posts being put out there by Bobby and BEG - they are trying get out of the corner their wolfy selves have gotten into!  I ask that HB protect me tonight so I can look at BEG (which I have said I will do.  Who has fake psychic Bobby said he'd look at, hmm?)  Pariah, please re-read.  Don't be swayed by pretty words and doubletalk.

However, I don't think I will survive the night.  Bobby sure was insistent on getting character names yesterday and today.  I think that gives the wolves some extra power.  In any case, I will happily take one for the village as the information you will gain from my death will not only prove I am right, it will lead you directly to the wolves. 

[CurtainCall]

VOTE COUNT (It takes 4 to lynch):

Bobbyplump (1): RG
RobsGirl (2): BP, Pariah
No Lynch (1): BEG

Not Voting:
Alexpk
Honeybee
Lionheart

The Day will end TODAY at 2:30PM

[Lionheart]

BEG, I have laid out my argument against you..... Twice.  I won't waste time on a fools errand, by going back and hunting for specific posts.  It is a LOGICAL ASSUMPTION I have made that leads me to conclude that you have to be a Wolf.  Much like the last game with StSab (I think).  When you eliminate the possibilities because of circumstances and things that are said you are left with 2 LOGICAL assumptions.  You were either (at THAT time) going to have to proceed to false claim me or the only other assumption is that you are a Wolf.  You ended up NOT false claiming me, because that was taken away from you as an option because of the Halu note thing.  The ONLY OTHER alternative (for me) is that you are Wolf.

[BrownEyedGirl]

BEG, I have laid out my argument against you..... Twice.  I won't waste time on a fools errand, by going back and hunting for specific posts.  It is a LOGICAL ASSUMPTION I have made that leads me to conclude that you have to be a Wolf.  Much like the last game with StSab (I think).  When you eliminate the possibilities because of circumstances and things that are said you are left with 2 LOGICAL assumptions.  You were either (at THAT time) going to have to proceed to false claim me or the only other assumption is that you are a Wolf.  You ended up NOT false claiming me, because that was taken away from you as an option because of the Halu note thing.  The ONLY OTHER alternative (for me) is that you are Wolf.

I base my reads off facts....not assumptions or possibilities of circumstances.  I didn't "have to" do anything......and I didn't false claim anything.....I just simply refused to participate in a plan that wasn't thought through.

It is not a fools errand, if a player has a question.  I have always answered questions directed at me....so...fine, fine, fine.....whatever.   

[BrownEyedGirl]

I'll be at work when day ends so here goes:

Unvote:  BEG
Vote: Bobby

I'm putting my vote where my read is.  I am the Psychic and I looked at Bobby (for the umpteenth time!).  I was given two options for my look  - to see if someone was Human/Na'vi or Good/Evil.  Being as I brought up the whole "some humans are evil" thing,  I opted to see if Bobby was evil and it came back yes. 

Alex you are on the right path.  So are you Lion.  Just look at the number of posts being put out there by Bobby and BEG - they are trying get out of the corner their wolfy selves have gotten into!  I ask that HB protect me tonight so I can look at BEG (which I have said I will do.  Who has fake psychic Bobby said he'd look at, hmm?)  Pariah, please re-read.  Don't be swayed by pretty words and doubletalk.

However, I don't think I will survive the night.  Bobby sure was insistent on getting character names yesterday and today.  I think that gives the wolves some extra power.  In any case, I will happily take one for the village as the information you will gain from my death will not only prove I am right, it will lead you directly to the wolves. 

This does not sound right.......why would the psyhic need to know Human or Nav'i?

[honeybee]

Wow...here I was hoping things would be more clear in the morning.  Sadly no...

EOD is what 2:30pm today (1:30 for me)?  Is that right?

I know I won't be around at the EOD since we will be in closings all afternoon.

Let me think a little more on BP and RG...

My gut tells me to trust RG....but I also have horrible wolfdar

[alexpk]

This does not sound right.......why would the psyhic need to know Human or Nav'i?

Actually, this sounds very believable.  Why would a wolf make that up? This makes me believe her more.

[alexpk]

So, EOD is at 2:30p EST.  I like my analysis from last night.

VOTE BobbyPlump

[alexpk]

Hey Pariah, where's your halu message?

[Lionheart]

I cannot explain it any differently, BEG.  If you come up Town, I'll be the first to apologize, and I'll buy you a fancy coffee the next time I see you and chalk it up to Ol' Lion being Ol' Lion again.  But if you turn up Wolf, you have to admit I got you good.  

[BrownEyedGirl]

Actually, this sounds very believable.  Why would a wolf make that up? This makes me believe her more.

I can think of a very good reason......it's called ground cover....something to refer back to as to make your story more believeable. 

You answered my question with another question......Why does the psyhic need to know human or navi?  Have we had a game in which the seer had a choice?  It's usually good or evil.....town or wolf. 

I'm not saying it's out of the question.....I just want to know why.  That's all. 

RG, why were you given a choice? 

BP, where you given a choice?

I don't know why I'm even trying.....most of you refuse to see things from other perspectives.  I think we have some very clever wolves, and all is not what is seems.....it's too easy just to get everyone to list their names, everyone tells the truth, and poof we catch a wolf.

IGN died for a reason.......RG said she was given a choice of human/navi......for a reason.  I'm talking to the wall....and that's all I have to say. 

[honeybee]

I can think of a very good reason......it's called ground cover....something to refer back to as to make your story more believeable. 

You answered my question with another question......Why does the psyhic need to know human or navi?  Have we had a game in which the seer had a choice?  It's usually good or evil.....town or wolf. 

I'm not saying it's out of the question.....I just want to know why.  That's all. 

RG, why were you given a choice? 

BP, where you given a choice?

I don't know why I'm even trying.....most of you refuse to see things from other perspectives.  I think we have some very clever wolves, and all is not what is seems.....it's too easy just to get everyone to list their names, everyone tells the truth, and poof we catch a wolf.

IGN died for a reason.......RG said she was given a choice of human/navi......for a reason.  I'm talking to the wall....and that's all I have to say. 

Actually we have...it was the PotC game...and if I recall THAT was a closed game as well.

[BrownEyedGirl]

Actually we have...it was the PotC game...and if I recall THAT was a closed game as well.

Remind me.....didn't we have 3 factions in that game.

[bobbyplump]

I will be on around deadline, but not much between now and then.

For the record, I do not have a choice between good/evil and human/Na'vi.

[honeybee]

Remind me.....didn't we have 3 factions in that game.

We had the the Pirates of the Black Pearl, Davey Jones and his crew, and there were lovers, and Jack Sparrow had an adjenda that could be an individual win (I think)

[honeybee]

I can't see what benefit RG gains in saying that she had a choice in her pick?  Why muck it up with details?  IF you are going to lie...keep it short and simple *(ahem...BEG...lol  )

This may seem irrational...but Bobby has had a rather smooth answer to just about everything.  Even his "typos" don't seem to phase him.  I just don't believe him.  Dude I am soo sorry if I am wrong...

VOTE:  BOBBYPLUMP

I can't believe I went from thinking BP was right and RG was a wolf to the reverse.  I am gonna close my eyes and hope for the best.

* BEG, always has a big excues with tons of reasons when she makes up her "stories" 

[honeybee]

NOTE THAT BOBBYPLUMP IS AT L-1...he has a right to plead his case.

[Lionheart]

He said he'd be back on before deadline, right?

[honeybee]

He said he'd be back on before deadline, right?

I think so...but I wanted to make sure that it was known he had 3 votes.

[Lionheart]

That leaves me....
Pariah won't be around he'll be at school.
BP certainly won't vote for himself.
And BEG will hold out on NL because she won't buss BP.
I think it would give BEG some major Town cred to put the final vote on BP.  But, I have a feeling she won't be available at deadline.  So, I'll wait until close to time for Bobby to plead his case and/or BEG to come on and cast the Lynch Vote or I'll do it.  Although, I can say I do it with some trepidation.  Regarding BP and RG, I'm still very conflicted, but will follow the Town will.  Hope to God we're right.

[BrownEyedGirl]

I can't see what benefit RG gains in saying that she had a choice in her pick?  Why muck it up with details?  IF you are going to lie...keep it short and simple *(ahem...BEG...lol  )

This may seem irrational...but Bobby has had a rather smooth answer to just about everything.  Even his "typos" don't seem to phase him.  I just don't believe him.  Dude I am soo sorry if I am wrong...

VOTE:  BOBBYPLUMP

I can't believe I went from thinking BP was right and RG was a wolf to the reverse.  I am gonna close my eyes and hope for the best.

* BEG, always has a big excues with tons of reasons when she makes up her "stories" 

OMG.....how backwards is that?  I remember YOU saying that I lay low, and avoid.  

I have been up front and center.  I have to scream, because nobody is listening.  I've been digging and looking for the answers, but if you think everything is cut and dried........you are wrong.  It's too easy!!  HOW DID IGN DIE???

Individual win condition, huh?  Very interesting.  Just remember that I brought this up on day 1, and it got swept under the rug.  There IS a reason for everything.  IF RG is the psyhic, and IF she was given a choice, THERE IS A REASON!

[BrownEyedGirl]

That leaves me....
Pariah won't be around he'll be at school.
BP certainly won't vote for himself.
And BEG will hold out on NL because she won't buss BP.
I think it would give BEG some major Town cred to put the final vote on BP.  But, I have a feeling she won't be available at deadline.  So, I'll wait until close to time for Bobby to plead his case and/or BEG to come on and cast the Lynch Vote or I'll do it.  Although, I can say I do it with some trepidation.  Regarding BP and RG, I'm still very conflicted, but will follow the Town will.  Hope to God we're right.

I call BS on this.  I have no problem casting the last vote, and yes....I'll be here at the deadline.   I already said I would vote BP over RG, but that Human/Navi choice put doubt in my head. 

HB, Alex......Did you ever read Soah's "Advance Wolf Guide" on 2+2.  #1 rule of being a wolf.......NUMBERS!  It's all a numbers game.  What happens on 2+2 when two people counter claim?   They let the wolves take care of it, work itself out........because of what....THE NUMBERS!!

I'm done......let the town destroy itself.  We aren't being productive....the wolves have us talking in circles......we handed them all of our character names, so....if there is something to the human/navi.....they know exactly who is human and who is navi.  huh?

 I will cast the last vote at 2:30.....the least you all can do, is let me do it....k?  Thank you.

[BrownEyedGirl]

Unvote:  No Lynch

[Lionheart]

I'd be more comfortable if you'd cast the lynch vote at say.... 2:25.  2:30 is the deadline and is technically too late.

[Lionheart]

But, no matter if you do or don't.  BP's got the most on him anyway.